XtremeMind.com

[Mr. GreenTea]

This post is mainly for Plutocraft, but the board is a free-for-all so join in if you've practical experience. I am making two distinctions here:

1. Traditional Magick versus any other kind (Chaos Magick especially)

-and-

2. Traditional Magick versus Psionics

In TM, the best results come from deciding what the working is meant to accomplish, and then adding each corresponding piece so that it builds on the previous piece, exponentially increasing the whole. For example a working that is in the purview of "the Sun" would be started on a Sunday, when the Sun is high in the sky, during the Hour of the Sun, and if possible when the Sun is in Aries (or the house of Leo if the Aspects coincide). Your altar may be decked out in the colors of the Sun, and you may have extra candles burning, along with incense that corresponds to the Sun. All these observances and pieces correspond to the Sun and are meant to build on Sun-related working for the greatest chance of success.

What happens though, when you do a quick-and-dirty working, or more to the point a deliberate working that ignores correspondences and instead relies purely on strength-of-will? For whatever the reason, you are compelled to do a "field working" with no tools whatsoever. You have only your mind and a very concrete time limit. Can you still work [successful] magick without the benefit of the tools-of-the-trade and without the correspondences which are nearly part-and-parcel of Traditional Magick?
_________________
Quotes ≠ Knowledge.
Doing brings Knowledge!
Right ≠ number of believers.
Results show Rightness or Wrongness.
Quoting others ≠ being right even if they are!
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[Alastan]

Your spot on about the traditional magick.

When you follow the instructions to the letter, you feel, mentally and correspondingly physically, that you've done it 'right' and the work manifests accordingly.

To answer your second part(and I know you already know the answer) you CAN do a field-working with me, myself, and I alone.
The reason for this is, as you've correctly noted elsewhere, your MIND is the pre-eminent tool(or should I say your strength-of-WILL, since the mind, afflicted with petty thoughts often gets in the way). With a certain level of understanding and competency you can perform magick anywhere.

That said I find even my Chaote work more powerful when I put additional time into it and invest in the trappings. But the deal-maker or deal-breaker is always the mind, the self, the will, no doubt about it.

So to conclude my answer, based on practical and personal experience, is YES! Down and dirty works JUST fine!

[Plutocraft]

Mr. GreenTea, thank you for taking your valuable time, making this incredible post, and emphasizing it to me. I have to agree with you that, like you said, a quick-and-dirty working, is a very bad way to go. And of course, just like you described some other things - this is not a way to go too, unless you want to achieve excellent results.

But I want to add something. See, I personally know some people who don't even need a candle... They can just put something on their mind, project like it happened, and it will... While other people owning expensive Radionic machines can't even achieve the simplest things with them...

No way I am trying to insult your intelligence or ego, and I will take an extremely credible person as an example, like Joe Vitale, as he says in his Wealth Trigger - do what works for YOU... So, ether it is Traditional Magick, Chas Magick, Radionic Machine, Orgone Generator or maybe even going to church and praying to God.

This is always interesting to discuss theories, but as we know, people are looking for a final result. So if you can get a result with the machine - that is awesome, but not everyone can. If I can get a result with Magick - it is awesome, but not everyone can. To discuss which one to use better - it doesn't make sense.

Also, I have a lot of repeat clients for Traditional Magick who actually own Radionic machines, but they can't get what they want, while I got those things for them with a simple Candle Magick...

Mr. GreenTea, please feel free let me know if I am wrong because no way I am propagandizing that people should achieve results by the way I do it or even saying that "my stuff is the best".

P.S. You stated: "In TM, the best results come from deciding what the working is meant to accomplish, and then adding each corresponding piece so that it builds on the previous piece, exponentially increasing the whole" - Mr. GreenTea, the best results come for me and other people from a true belief in operation, ether it is done with Chaos Magick, other Magick, Radionic or simply using your mind combined with continuous belief after operation. This means you just know it will happen!

P.P.S. You stated: "Can you still work [successful] magick without the benefit of the tools-of-the-trade and without the correspondences which are nearly part-and-parcel of Traditional Magick?" - from MY experience - ABSOLUTELY!!!! How? By power of the mind and belief. However, Magick tools and/or Radionics/Psyonics greatly increase chances of overall success and speed.

P.P.P.S. You stated: "What happens though, when you do a quick-and-dirty working..." - Mr. GreenTea, if you treat any Magick as what you described above - it will most likely not work for you. Is this how you treat Magick and think of Magick? Also, what is your definition of Traditional Magick?

[Plutocraft]

[Mr. GreenTea]

The learning of Traditional Magick started pretty much with the Llewellyn books of Magick, as made popular by Gerald Gartner. My biggest problem was the cookbook nature of how magick was presented. Many assumptions were made about living arrangements, income, space, and so on. Most of these assumption caused undue stress and hardship, and on top of that, I seriously could not "get into it." I understood magick at the conceptual level quite well, but in practice it rubbed me the wrong way. Thinking that the problem was the style of magick, I moved on to Enochian Magick, but if anything it was even more inaccessible, approaching "performance-art" rather than rituals designed to produce tangible results. It did however give me more than enough knowledge to appreciate the The Book of the In-Laws. It turned out that Craft Working and Candle Magick were the most effective and in tune with me. What I truly desired, but didn't know the name of at the time was Psionics. This was the best possible fit for me, and I found I had real talent when using it. It was a major paradigm shift for me, as I was (and still am) a technocrat. Computers, Systems Analysis, Information Systems were and are the realms I am most conversant in. Or perhaps not so big a leap. Were it not for concerted parental pressure, I'd likely be a Graphic Artist plying my trade with an airbrush rather than a keyboard. I have found a great deal of interchangeability in the two disciplines so maybe that is why psionics appeals the way it does. As with many things, learning about a thing does not necessarily convey expertise. For me it was a happy coincidence, although others would say I was experiencing pre-sentience knowing that I and this new subject were made for each other. *shrug* It's moot. It works most of the time, so no complaints. This isn't everything, but it's accurate enough to give you and idea of where I am, and where I came from. For those of you who would complain and/or find fault, be aware that I chose to leave out certain learnings...
_________________
Quotes ≠ Knowledge.
Doing brings Knowledge!
Right ≠ number of believers.
Results show Rightness or Wrongness.
Quoting others ≠ being right even if they are!
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