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tofucanyon
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Vipassanna Meditation flowchart
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 Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:47 pm Post subject: Vipassanna Meditation flowchart |
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IMO Vipassanna is an excellent meditation for beginners. I know through this course I was able to understand elements of life mastery meditations that otherwise wasn't so apparent.
Anyway I made a flowchart of the Vipassanna process in case anyone may be interested in the technique. It is probably more fruitful to attend the retreats in person but this may help those who are unable to attend.
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Ford
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| For some reason Vipassana is the style of meditation that I've known the most people to go nuts from. I'm not talking just normal crazy but balls to the wall, stamp on the hand crazy. I don't why, I've done it and look at me, I'm fine! LOL but I don't tell people to do it anymore. |
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TomSKinney
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:39 am Post subject: |
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The proper foundation for vipassana is the first jhana, although it can technically be started on the basis of access concentration.
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tofucanyon
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Vipassanna Meditation flowchart
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| Ford wrote: | | For some reason Vipassana is the style of meditation that I've known the most people to go nuts from. I'm not talking just normal crazy but balls to the wall, stamp on the hand crazy. I don't why, I've done it and look at me, I'm fine! LOL but I don't tell people to do it anymore. |
Not sure if you mean at the actual retreat. May have to do with grueling hours. Also the meditation may let out some deep issues.
Personally I can account of one individual flipping out during the course. Went crazy and got up and started shouting how great Jesus was. |
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Rayzorblades
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| O_o This causes me to shy away from this style of meditation. I'll do my emotional healing a little slower methinks. |
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Ford
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| tofucanyon wrote: | | Ford wrote: | | For some reason Vipassana is the style of meditation that I've known the most people to go nuts from. I'm not talking just normal crazy but balls to the wall, stamp on the hand crazy. I don't why, I've done it and look at me, I'm fine! LOL but I don't tell people to do it anymore. |
Not sure if you mean at the actual retreat. May have to do with grueling hours. Also the meditation may let out some deep issues.
Personally I can account of one individual flipping out during the course. Went crazy and got up and started shouting how great Jesus was. |
Ha ha that's hilarious! I met plenty who flipped out at the retreats but heaps that say that it was Vipassana that was sending them bonkers before they actually went full on bonkers. I think part of the problem is zero support after the retreat. |
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paganchick
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:06 am Post subject: Thinking about Trying Vipassina for the First Time |
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Hey,
I read this thread and just had to comment as now I really need some more information about what you meant when you said that people tending to go nuts from this form of meditation? I had been told by more than one person that they Vipassana Retreats are something that everyone should do at least one in their lives and that although they do have to go without speaking for ten days that the gains were much greater than any minor discomforts they experienced while there. Obviously, I wasn't planning on starting my training with a retreat, but was thinking about slowly building up a daily practice and then doing the 10 day retreat when I feel I will get the most out of it without being pushed too far beyond my comfort level. Would some of your be so kind as to explain what you think I should avoid so that I don't go, "nuts" as some of your have stated you've known others to do. Also could any of you suggest a good beginners program? I just recently got, "Sharon Salzberg - 12 Month Insight Meditation (Vipassana) Course", as I had heard that was a descent starting point, but am open to hearing about other programs from which you or those you know have had success with. Thanks.  |
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seekspellhelp
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:45 pm Post subject: Vipassana and Jhana |
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| TomSKinney wrote: | | The proper foundation for vipassana is the first jhana, although it can technically be started on the basis of access concentration. |
This set me thinking. Quoting Venerable Sayadaw Gyi U Vimalaramsi:
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We will first start with redefining some words which are regularly misunderstood (or badly used to suit some commentaries), misused and are causing a lot of confusion to the practice of the Lord Buddha's method of meditation. Firstly, let us look at the word jhana. In Pali, jhana has many types of meanings. It can mean meditation stages or illumination. However, when the common translation of the word jhana as being merely "concentration" is used, misunderstanding takes place. The word jhana was never defined as "fixed concentration, access concentration or momentary concentration" in the suttas. These definitions are only
mentioned in some commentaries.
The Anapanasati Sutta gives the most profound meditation instructions available today. It includes the "Four Foundations of Mindfulness" and the "Seven Enlightenment Factors" and shows how they are fulfilled through the practice of "Mindfulness of Breathing". This is done by attaining all of the meditation stages (jhanas). This sutta shows the direct way to practice "Tranquil Wisdom Meditation" and does not categorize meditation practices. Strangely, the current separation into various types of meditation like "fixed absorption concentration, or access concentration" and "momentary concentration" meditation seems to occur only in the commentaries but never in the suttas. Thus, one must notice this and compare them with the suttas for their accuracy.
Currently, there seems to be some disputes regarding the kinds of meditation the Lord Buddha taught. One school of thought says -- "One must begin by practicing 'Jhana [fixed] concentration meditation' and then proceed to the fourth jhana before switching over to the practice of 'vipassana meditation' or momentary concentration [khanika samadhi]. Other schools of thought say that one can attain Nibbana without going through the jhanas, but only practice "vipassana meditation" or developing access concentration [upacara samadhi] right from the beginning of their meditation practice.
Interestingly, the word "vipassana' or 'vidassana' (which has the same meaning) is only mentioned very few times in the suttas, whereas the word Jhana (here meaning tranquil wisdom meditation stages, not fixed concentration) is mentioned many thousands of times. Moreover, the Anapanasati Sutta shows that the Lord Buddha taught only one kind of meditation, that is, by simultaneously developing both the jhanas and wisdom. (Here, the word jhana means meditation stages or illumination of mind, not deep absorption or fixed concentration (appana samadhi), access concentration (upacara samadhi) or even momentary
concentration (Khanika samadhi).)
The commentaries and sub-commentaries have divided "concentration" and "vipassana" into different forms of meditation. This kind of "separation" does not appear in the suttas. Although it is mentioned in the Anguttara Nikaya that the first part of the practice is samatha and the second part is vidassana (developing wisdom), it is not saying that they are two different types of practices or meditations. The practice is the same! It is only that different things are seen at different times, as in the case of Sutta 111 'One By One as they Occurred' from the Majjhima Nikaya. This sutta gives an explanation of Venerable Sariputta's meditation development and experience of all the jhanas (meditation stages) before he attained arahatship. When one starts to differentiate and categorize meditation practices, the situation becomes very confusing. This is also evident in the popular commentaries like the Visuddhi Magga and its sub-commentaries. One begins to see inconsistencies when they make a comparison with the suttas. Nowadays, most scholars use just a line or parts of a sutta to ensure that the commentaries agree with the sutta. However, if one were to read the sutta as a whole, the sutta has an entirely different meaning. |
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TomSKinney
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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Of course both concentration and insight are required, and obtaining both is not as clear-cut as the commentaries make them sound. Often the breath is used as a main focus in both practices and when they are done seated it is really only the intent of the person which makes the distinction. The problem is that insight meditation can be destabilizing and the solution is that a foundation of concentration can help keep everything together so that you can still function and go about your daily life. There is less risk of the sort of mental and emotional breakdown that some people are remarking on happening with straight vipassana.
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