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mahasvira
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have gtumo inti api hidup now, up to vajra master level. If anyone interested to exchange/swap energy system, can contact me. I'm interested mostly in inner power or tenaga dalam ilahi system
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mahasvira wrote:
I have gtumo inti api hidup now, up to vajra master level. If anyone interested to exchange/swap energy system, can contact me. I'm interested mostly in inner power or tenaga dalam ilahi system


Who did you get your attunement from? What benefits do you see because of it?

Tummo, Chandali, Kundalini etc are well thought-out systems which benefit from an initial transmission/shaktipat/lineage connection but require a lot of hardwork thereafter. I am yet to see any of these Hari Ansari kind of attuned Kundalini/Vajra masters who have achieved the same results as a Tibetan/Bonpo Shaman or a Kundalini Yogin. All I have heard is "feel tingling", heat etc.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chipervadesall wrote:
mahasvira wrote:
I have gtumo inti api hidup now, up to vajra master level. If anyone interested to exchange/swap energy system, can contact me. I'm interested mostly in inner power or tenaga dalam ilahi system


Who did you get your attunement from? What benefits do you see because of it?

Tummo, Chandali, Kundalini etc are well thought-out systems which benefit from an initial transmission/shaktipat/lineage connection but require a lot of hardwork thereafter. I am yet to see any of these Hari Ansari kind of attuned Kundalini/Vajra masters who have achieved the same results as a Tibetan/Bonpo Shaman or a Kundalini Yogin. All I have heard is "feel tingling", heat etc.


I received it from a master from Indonesia. Achievement will depend on your practice. Heat generated from the practice, is only a minor result. Gtumo energy can be used for healing and spiritual achievement.

Hari Andri Winarso (not Hari Ansari) is one of a few qualified vajra master gtumo from Indonesia.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mahasvira wrote:
Hari Andri Winarso (not Hari Ansari) is one of a few qualified vajra master gtumo from Indonesia.


I had some attunements from him, I haven't noticed anything from it...
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mahasvira
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei wrote:
mahasvira wrote:
Hari Andri Winarso (not Hari Ansari) is one of a few qualified vajra master gtumo from Indonesia.


I had some attunements from him, I haven't noticed anything from it...


Did you receive Sathya Tumo from him as well?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mahasvira wrote:
Lin Kuei wrote:
mahasvira wrote:
Hari Andri Winarso (not Hari Ansari) is one of a few qualified vajra master gtumo from Indonesia.


I had some attunements from him, I haven't noticed anything from it...


Did you receive Sathya Tumo from him as well?


I did..A bunch of them. A bunch of incorrectly read Sanskrit Hindu and Buddhist mantras were also given. Read the archive for a discussion on the same. Tummo taken out of its context and sold as a healing modality without the steps that precede and follow it is simply useless and stupid IMO. It's a part of the larger program and doing tummo out of the context without the required "Right View" is simply dangerous. Well, I am talking about an actual Tummo practice, not the attunement kind lol
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mahasvira
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chipervadesall wrote:
mahasvira wrote:
Lin Kuei wrote:
mahasvira wrote:
Hari Andri Winarso (not Hari Ansari) is one of a few qualified vajra master gtumo from Indonesia.


I had some attunements from him, I haven't noticed anything from it...


Did you receive Sathya Tumo from him as well?


I did..A bunch of them. A bunch of incorrectly read Sanskrit Hindu and Buddhist mantras were also given. Read the archive for a discussion on the same. Tummo taken out of its context and sold as a healing modality without the steps that precede and follow it is simply useless and stupid IMO. It's a part of the larger program and doing tummo out of the context without the required "Right View" is simply dangerous. Well, I am talking about an actual Tummo practice, not the attunement kind lol


I'm curious that you didn't noticed any results. Did you take your time to practice it and let the energy integrate? How long did you practice it?

IMO, Tumo will bring noticeable result when you practice it regularly.

btw, I couldn't find the discussion you mentioned above.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me system from Hari Andri Winarso and several other "Ilmu" from Javanese Tradition are very powerful ( I have a deep heart link to them) but you need to clean and open your energy channel before anything else. Many occultist miss this step and have no results during their study of the Art.

Also you need to raise the true inner self not the mental...

Attunement is just a beginning, the daily practice is very important to have success on the time.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mahasvira wrote:

I'm curious that you didn't noticed any results. Did you take your time to practice it and let the energy integrate? How long did you practice it?


Well, it seems to me you are rather unfamiliar with gTum-mo, Vajrayana and the workings of a traditional and complete system such as Tantric Buddhism, an aspect of which is gTum-mo.

Now, to answer your question - what comes with these so called attunements? A shoddy manual with incorrect mantras; a few lines about some breathing techniques (better than which can be found in even a simple manual of Pranayama such as Hathayoga Pradipika or even a Bihar School of Yoga publication). What shall come out of such shoddy instruction? Of course, if you keep breathing incorrectly, you will notice some effect; you will notice something when you WANT to anyway! You can go on doing the jerky breathing published in lack luster detail in the extremely ill-written manual, but do not assume someone better informed to do the same blindly.

There is a critical examination of this entire farce named Sathya Tummo here:

seekspellhelp wrote:
I cannot comment on TDI but I received Sathya tummo teachings from its founder Hari Andri Winarso. The Angkur or transmissions - I did not feel anything.

But the course material is what really I had doubts about. I have learnt Sanskrit and Tibetan for a decade and have received initiation from Hindu and Buddhist masters, and can thus profess some familiarity with Mantras.

There are no real breathing exercises in this system. One utters some phrases that indicate an acceptance of the initiation and it is supposed to happen. Nothing happened in my case and probably its to do with my intent? Not sure!

Coming back to Sathya Tummo, there is no breath training. In level 1, the chief meditation involves reciting a mantra and meditating - no instruction on how or what to meditate on. The mantra is of bagalamukhi, one of the ten Hindu Mahavidya goddesses. She does not appear in the context of Tibetan Anuttara Tantra or other Vajrayana schools and it is not clear why this mantra appears in the context of gTummo. Ok, nevertheless, the mantra sent does not match even 50% with the actual mantra and is simply a distorted version of the original thirty-six letter mantra. Bagalamukhi is a goddess associated with the ritual of stambhana of immobilizing the enemy. The words in this mantra are specific words in Sanskrit. The words used in the mantra taught in this course make no sense, follow no rule of Sanskrit and is simply gibberish - evidently typed by some one who did not understand the language or the original mantra. There is a second mantra, which is really a nama mantra or a name of the goddess employed in the fourth grammatic case, mostly for purpose of ritual offerings. That is printed here as a mantra, again incorrectly.

In level 2, there are a list of Tara mantras, again most of them incorrect and making no sense. Most of these standard Vajrayana mantras and one can easily see them in Vajrayana classics such as Sadhanamala.

So, unless the juice is in the Angkur initiation, I see no use coming out of these mantras. I have studied many of these Indonesian schools. In most cases, especially those employing mantras, the teachings are simply a heterogeneous mixture of Hindu tantra, Buddhist Vajrayana and some Islamic or Sufi influence. I would be surprised if these mantras give any result and if they do, it is purely because someone sits, repeats and that acts like a shamata practice. But he could've achieved that repeating 'cola cola'. That is not how mantras work - certainly not in most of these overtly commercialized systems which are simply a collage of things picked here and there and mixed to form a lump that sticks in the throat. Most Eastern schools insist on right view and a skillful means for true cultivation and a New Age school such as Sathya Tummo is certainly not one of them.


Bagalamukhi mantra is never used in Buddhist context. Tara mantras given in the manual are offensive! And all this is termed as gTum-mo, “new” Tum-mo, channeled Tummo, Vajra-master blah blah. Anyone with some familiarity with Vajrayana should be easily able to see through this deception. Hari’s frequent claims of being a Vajra master without lineage transmission, vows or samaya has been discussed in several Buddhist forums and his claim of being a Vajra master has been dismissed as no more than a joke. He is simply a seller selling dubious attunements. Nothing more, nothing less.

Namarrgon wrote:
but you need to clean and open your energy channel before anything else. Many occultist miss this step and have no results during their study of the Art.

Also you need to raise the true inner self not the mental...

Attunement is just a beginning, the daily practice is very important to have success on the time.


Again, this displays your lack of familiarity with any traditional and complete system and a skillful application of teaching. Techniques are meant to purify the channels, transform the vital airs and accomplish the alchemy of the breath, body and soul. If you already accomplished all that, why gTummo? Why paying hundreds of dollars to Hari to get dubious mantras and breath techniques that make no sense? Like I said, you can keep practicing forever hoping for something to happen, but nothing of benefit will ever come out of it.

Now, to summarize, what do we have in his systems?

1. Invocations - I have no issue with these. There are indeed higher beings and Bodhisattvas who listen and respond to sincere prayers and that way, Hari’s invocations may be of benefit.

2. Mantras - The mantras he prints in his manuals are thoroughly incorrect, out of context and it is rather clear he has NO clue of what he is doing. One does NOT mess around with a Mahavidya such as Bagalamukhi without the required lineage transmission and preparatory and propitiative practices (which we call Purva and Uttara angas - pre and post limbs). One needs mantra, yantra, tantra, kavacha (armor), kilaka (key to unlock the power) etc. to accomplish anything useful out of the mantra. Else, you will go on repeating the mantra incorrectly and end up waiting your lifetime with nothing. Even worse, one can incur the wrath of the yidam or the deity for invoking her incorrectly and without ample preparation. Not having lineage protection (as I stated earlier, Hari’s Vajra master title is laughable at most) will make matters worse.

3. Attunement - I never felt anything from them. After going through the material and researching a bit more about him and his system, it does NOT surprise me. I have received transmissions from six Tibetan Buddhist Rinpoches of the three branches and myself belong to a Kashmiri Shaivaite lineage of Tantra. So, I can vouch for true transmission and there is nothing close to it here. Why go that far? Just try Dreamweaver, Steve or Chris (Sphinx) on this forum. They can show you some “true” energy work. Smile

3. Breathing techniques - what is taught in different levels and different “flavors” of gTum-mo SOLD by Hari have nothing whatsoever to do with what is referred to as gTum-mo (Fierce Lady) by Tibetan Buddhists and Bonpo Shamans. Tantra is learnt in three stages: training of the mind accomplished by sutrayana, meditative practices such as Shamata and Vipassana and finally the completion practice which is true Tantra. Gtum-mo is one of the many completion practices. Some teach it, some do not! A skilled master knows the need of his student, the sequence in which the technique is imparted and also the view required on the part of the student to make the technique useful to himself/herself. A haphazard collage of techniques compiled together in an extremely bad manual will benefit no one. Gtum-mo, practiced incorrectly can seriously hurt one’s physical and energy bodies.

Gtum-mo requires, at the onset:

1. Purified intent through devotional and meditational techniques.
2. Regulated breath-rhythm through preparatory practices such as vase breath, nine winds etc. and hatha yoga like postures, yantra yoga, trul-khor etc.
3. Repetition of certain mantras to gain protection and to kindle the blissful inner fire.

The aspirant then invokes the fierce Vajrayogini who symbolizes Kundalini and the inner fire in his navel Chakra (Manipuraka) through the power of breath, intent and mantra. He meditates on this form till a sense of non-separateness with the Yogini is achieved and then there is the spanning of the entire Kula path i.e. From root to the Crown chakra by means of Nyasa or placement of mantric syllables through intent and breath. Now, by merit of intense concentration (which one is expected to have already accomplished via Shamata practice undertaken before the Completion stage practice), the inner flame is aroused, made brighter and more intense, eventually resulting in the flowing of the Amrita or Elixir from the Crown. The entire practice is accomplished typically in ten stages: starting with a fine flame, leading all the way up to the disappearance of physical body and the world of names and forms. The raging, magnificent Fire is reabsorbed into oneself in stages six to ten, finally leading to a glimpse of the Great Void - which is the goal of a completion stage practice such as gTum-mo. To undertake a complex and possibly dangerous practice (without careful supervision of a master) for the sake of heat or healing is akin to using a nuclear reactor to heat one’s home. Remember, gTum-mo is also referred to as Chandali or an “outcaste woman” not without a reason!

Again, sequence in which gTum-mo practice is undertaken is very important.

1. Pratyahara - one starts with the withdrawal practices where life energy is withdrawn from the five sense organs and their objects.
2. Dhyana - Once the life energy is withdrawn from exterior objects, one is firmly established in a meditative state, focussing upon a deity/yidam, a mandala, an inner energy vortex or even the void!
3. Pranayama - There are practices to open channels and clarify the vital airs.
4. Dharana - Here, the vital airs and also the vital fluid are prevented from movement or leakage thereby replenishing oneself for the next stage.

Then comes the actual practice of Anusmrti where all the above are put together and also transcended. This is where consort practice or shakti-sadhana comes into play (karma-mudra). Shakti can be physical consort or an imagined one. Gtum-mo is of the latter category where Vajra-yogini herself is the consort or Karma-mudra. In essence, the goal of gTum-mo is transformation of Karma Vayu (physical winds) into Jnana Vayu (wind of Primordial awareness). An intricate and intimately connected set of practices are included under the category of Completion Stage practices - gTum-mo (Inner Fire), Pho-ba (Astral techniques), rmi-lam (Dream Yoga), phyag rgya (Sexual techniques) etc. Without the Great Seal or phyag rgya or Mahamudra, Chandali/gTum-mo cannot be effectively kindled, managed and transformed. These techniques, practiced correctly and in the right sequence, are meant to: a. Transform the wakeful state to an awakened state (Nirmanakaya); b. Sleep state into the dimension of Reality (Dharmakaya); c. Dream state into one of true Enjoyment (Sambhogakaya) and d. The state of physical orgasm into the dimension of unceasing bliss (Sukhakaya). A preliminary guide to gTum-mo is obviously the Six Yogas of Naropa. Some texts also point out to the various distractions that accompany great bliss and one without the necessary mindset achieved through the study of Sutrayana will succumb.

I suggest those interested in gTum-mo seek better and more authentic sources and not waste time and endanger oneself practicing useless and incomplete breathing techniques.

Oh, and what’s with the loose usage of the term Vajra Master? A Vajracharya cannot be anybody or nobody. It has a particular significance. One is expected to belong to a pure lineage and should have received and perfected four empowerments of Mahayoga and Anuyoga: Empowerments of vase, body, wisdom and precious word (which are described often as elaborate, unelaborate, very unelaborate and extremely unelaborate). And till the previous empowerment is not realized, one does not qualify for the next as that would make no sense!
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting discussion, chipervadesall.

You indeed know a lot about tantra, both in Buddhism and Hinduism. From what I know, the gtumo which spread out in the internet now, has been 'blended' with the traditional 'tenaga dalam' in Indonesia. I had also discussion with some of the practitioners, and they said that there's also gtumo blended with Javanese traditional practice.

But, you have your point as gtumo is part of 6 Yoga of Naropa. And it needs transimission and preliminary practice, especially to clean the path. During the attunement or angkur, the master will help the student to clean the path and also 'seed' his/her energy to student's tantien as a 'modality' to practice.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm Vajra Master of Sathya Tumo Path and I can confirm here : this path is really powerful and life changing. As many other path it need to meditate on daily basis using the knowlge given in order to reach the energetic state and the abilities. Hari Andri Winarso is a great master of our time, an aquarius teacher ( they are very rare).

I'm not agree with the message from chipervadesall, you know only exoteric tradition not the secret and true path inside tradition, you will never find the truth inside mere books or website...

I give a key here and only those who are energetic ready can understand : You are the 4 elements but to get the best of Sathya Tumo or any system you need to become inside you the 5th element ( akasha element) in order to draw to yourself the treasure of the Spirit.

It's like magick stuff on the web and on amazon, you can find many things, many books, seminar, device or grimoire and you have only weak, poor or limited results not the true powers. A real wizard from west or east or anywhere can do anything with just intent and a simple word from him can change you forever.

I dont say that is not difficult, yes it's difficult because you need to train yourself and this is an hard work who is done during many years but one day you reach a state, a very special state who allow you to become one with your essence, this state open the miracle power and beyond.

Regarding Sathya Tumo the only thing who have disappointed me : the reiki master who offer several hundred of systems often doesnt have done the necessary work to be genuine vajra master and then the student is disapponted. How can they be a master of several hundred of systems, they meditate and practice the exercise 24h day ? They practice 2 or 3 hours everyday of Sathya Tumo as I do ? Unfortunately they dont have the time because they have only the time to receive new systems, this is crazy quest of the new attunement. Collect attunement will never lead you to spiritual evolution. Attunement is just a beginning wht you do with the attunement ( if it's a good system) is the only important thing.

All the Best,
Namarrgon
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