Religious debate like political discourse, never leads to enlightenment. I always wondered why Joseph ever decided to put these topic headers in. It mars an otherwise perfect browsing experience.
That statement is incorrect. It is entirely possible that religious debate(and for that fact, political discourse) can lead to enlightenment. It may have already. We don't know do we.
Certainly it does little harm to have such a section, with the possibility of doing good, then it does with no option to discuss the 'religious' topics.
Have you seen good come from any thread posted on here so far? _________________ Quotes ≠ Knowledge.
Doing brings Knowledge!
Right ≠ number of believers.
Results show Rightness or Wrongness.
Quoting others ≠ being right even if they are!
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:40 pm Post subject: Ad Hominem
bryanskrantz wrote:
Obvious troll is obvious.
An ad hominem (Latin: "to the man"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to link the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise.[-if you shoot the messanger then you never have to weigh the letter) I never asked you to believe what I'm saying ..just take it for the checking.....Enlightenment is about being open to all of life....but most people are trying to escape something so they never get there...most christians ...included...and u cannot say I am debating because I never chose a side....just refereeing....it just so happens I have some knowledge about the game.
Religious debate like political discourse, never leads to enlightenment. I always wondered why Joseph ever decided to put these topic headers in. It mars an otherwise perfect browsing experience.
That statement is incorrect. It is entirely possible that religious debate(and for that fact, political discourse) can lead to enlightenment. It may have already. We don't know do we.
Certainly it does little harm to have such a section, with the possibility of doing good, then it does with no option to discuss the 'religious' topics.
Have you seen good come from any thread posted on here so far?
Religious debate like political discourse, never leads to enlightenment. I always wondered why Joseph ever decided to put these topic headers in. It mars an otherwise perfect browsing experience.
That statement is incorrect. It is entirely possible that religious debate(and for that fact, political discourse) can lead to enlightenment. It may have already. We don't know do we.
Certainly it does little harm to have such a section, with the possibility of doing good, then it does with no option to discuss the 'religious' topics.
Have you seen good come from any thread posted on here so far?
Yes I have. While I could argue without seeing any good, it sure does help if I have. I've learned quite a bit of useful information from the religious section.
Obvious troll is obvious.
Religious debate like political discourse, never leads to enlightenment.
I don't know about political discourse but a skillful religious (or philosophical) debate was/is considered an important way to enlightenment. Debates in Advaita or Buddhist traditions is not all about conversion, subversion and victory but rather about deepening one's realization and clarifying one's view. Tarka or logic is one of the main systems of Indian philosophy.
Actually a debate "leads" one more towards enlightenment than a "practice" for self-enquiry, is also a form of internal debate. Don't question, just do it is not the only approach of all spiritual schools.
Obvious troll is obvious.
Religious debate like political discourse, never leads to enlightenment.
I don't know about political discourse but a skillful religious (or philosophical) debate was/is considered an important way to enlightenment. Debates in Advaita or Buddhist traditions is not all about conversion, subversion and victory but rather about deepening one's realization and clarifying one's view. Tarka or logic is one of the main systems of Indian philosophy.
Actually a debate "leads" one more towards enlightenment than a "practice" for self-enquiry, is also a form of internal debate. Don't question, just do it is not the only approach of all spiritual schools.
d
Religion and spiritual education is not the same thing at all. Organized Religion would like you to think that it is (makes conversion easier). Bhuddism, and presumably Adavita do not deny the existence of other philosophical or religious modalities, thus debate can take place.
I am speaking about something fundamentally different, and if you re-read the posts, you will see a fundamental denial from the OP that other modalities, philosophies and religions can exist. With that as the primary talking point, no enlightenment can take place since no debate can take place either. You either accept what the OP has posted whole cloth or be cast into hell for non-belief, no debate or varying viewpoint allowed.
When face with this choice, I reiterate that no enlightenment can occur, and that creating the forum topic was largely a waste of time.
Also, you misquoted Bryan Krantz. _________________ Quotes ≠ Knowledge.
Doing brings Knowledge!
Right ≠ number of believers.
Results show Rightness or Wrongness.
Quoting others ≠ being right even if they are!
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
Religion and spiritual education is not the same thing at all. Organized Religion would like you to think that it is (makes conversion easier). Bhuddism, and presumably Adavita do not deny the existence of other philosophical or religious modalities, thus debate can take place.
I am speaking about something fundamentally different, and if you re-read the posts, you will see a fundamental denial from the OP that other modalities, philosophies and religions can exist. With that as the primary talking point, no enlightenment can take place since no debate can take place either. You either accept what the OP has posted whole cloth or be cast into hell for non-belief, no debate or varying viewpoint allowed.
When face with this choice, I reiterate that no enlightenment can occur, and that creating the forum topic was largely a waste of time.
Agreed! Point well-taken
Quote:
Also, you misquoted Bryan Krantz.
Oops, sorry, just noticed that! Not good with responses on my iPhone
If you are so convinced about what you say then why you try to persuade us?
I believe the sky is blue, as it is, but I don't go around preaching others of this self-evident truth. If what you know for real (and I don't want to discuss that, it is your experience and completely valid) is SO real, then why struggle?
If I were you I would have Faith in Him enough to let go of this issue, knowing that his omnipotence and compassion are unlimited, and we are in our own path just as you, and focus on something valuable in your life.
Hey brother william, gglad to see you are still walking in the truth! YahWeh is an awesome God! Im walking everyday in His glorious light, unconditional love overflowing me, hovering over me it brings me joy to see it in other people's face expression when they look at me.
As you noticed in my post of the past, I was big on sorcery and magick as well but God set me free. I got a Deliverance and Jesus casted all those demons out of me and broke all these spells that were on me, even the spells from xm that were backed up on radionics.... this is when i realized the power of God! The Holy Spirit is moving mightly in me, filled up with the kingdom of heaven...yes heaven truly is within us!
Peace and love in Christ be with you brother!
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:34 am Post subject: Christianity
Hi William
I am a Catholic Christian...well I was raised as christian...
1. but as long as I know...the Jesus in the New Testament and the Yeshu in the Talmud are 2 different persons... the Talmud has been modified...go do research with the Jews...
2. there is another idea that there is no New Testament in Judaism...the real name for the Old Testament for Judaism is not "OLD TESTAMENT"...is the Torah!!!
there was no New Testament BECAUSE THEY DID NOT HAVE ANY...
how can the Jews reject someone that they dont even know?????
3. You cannot Understand Torah literally...because Hebrew is also a MATHEMATICAL LANGUAGE!!!
4. For a Jew THERE IS NO HELL, NO DEVIL...i dont remember what the serpent represents...but it gave Eve wisdom through the fruit...
Interesting thread- certainly a debatable topic. Personally, from Willem's experience, I can see why he called out for help to Jesus given the life he was living. I think when people feel emptiness in their life, they need something to focus on to bring them light. In Willem's case, it was Jesus.
I think where Willem and other people go awry is that they assume what will work them will work for everyone else. What I have found is that there are a multitude of paths to enlightenment, and some people freak out with the metaphysical stuff- it's just not for them and it disorients them. So they focus on Jesus, and that brings them peace.
However, as much as I respect Christians (and I even attend a Christian church from time to time), I reject the idea that people have to 'believe in Jesus' or they will go to Hell. If God is Love, then Love could not possibly cast his children into Hell for all Eternity. That would mean God is something other than Love, because a Loving being could not be so unforgiving and do something so terrible. So to say God would cast his children into Hell, is blasphemy against God, IMHO.
On the other hand, who knows, Willem may be right and I may be like him in the next few years. For right now, though, I see Christian faith as mainly a way to disempower people. Christianty for the masses, and ritualistic magick for the elite (freemasons, Skull & Bonest etc), who I believe use the powers of the Universe for their benefit. Why shouldn't we use it for ours?
funny you brought this topic up, felt the good Lords presence today as he saved my life yesterday from something personal that could of went terrably wrong. Lets just say i was ganna do at least 5 years in prison but by grace the cop let me go ;--D
I believe in alot of truth of the bible, just not the religion itself for it is made of a bunch of man's theory and to much talk about sins and going to hell which is nonsence, making them live out of fear and never seeking truth
if you follow the laws of cause and effect and practise self control you will reap what you sow.
also their idea of God and heaven is so childish, God isnt some imaginary man sitting in a mansion, he is all in all the first and the last, the only thing that exist. all the plants, animals, cosmos ect are all connected to form the wholeness of Him. But you can tell people this and they will still be blind no matter how much they read about it
because only He can reveal it to you, and many other of his secrets that only a few are chosen to know, the ones that actually put up the fight to know and wont let any trail and errors stop them from themgetting the truth.
This morning i go outside my patio to my surprise there was a huge red snake swiming in my pool, no way of getting in everything closed with a pool fence. I go grab my machete and chop him up while he tried attacking the machete. this is first time i see a snake in my pool....
to my surprise about 5 min l8r I get a text message from a christian friend of mine saying something about "God has given you power over Satan and you will trample him with a sword"....
then you bring this topic up, so i guess He wanted me to testify
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